BarNinja Podcast - The Ultimate Bartending & Mixology Podcast
The bartending podcast for home and professional bartenders. We share best practices, tips, trends, tools, hacks, product reviews, and innovations in the bartending and mixology field. We cover everything from being a better bartender to being a better drinker.
BarNinja Podcast - The Ultimate Bartending & Mixology Podcast
Tipping Issues and 30 and Over Bars: The Debate
Ever wondered how the evolution of tipping culture has affected both servers and patrons alike? This episode promises an in-depth exploration of modern tipping practices, from the challenges posed by electronic payment systems to the blurred lines between genuine gratuity and hidden labor costs. Join hosts Bill Thornton, Kayla Lowe, and Mike Garrison as they share personal anecdotes and address the ethical complexities surrounding tips. Plus, get a sneak peek at our upcoming interviews with industry luminaries like Toby, the author of the Bartender's Manifesto, and Chad from Service Bar.
Switching things up, we dive into the hot topic of age-restricted bars, focusing on the unique policies at Donerick's Pub in Ohio, which caters to patrons 30 and over on weekends. We discuss whether this age policy is a boon or a bane for the dating scene, tipping culture, and the overall nightlife experience. With personal stories from cities like Charlotte, this episode promises a mix of thought-provoking discussions and amusing tales, offering a unique perspective on the camaraderie and logistical quirks of nightlife. Don't miss out on this blend of serious debate and light-hearted banter that's sure to keep you engaged!
Hey Bar Ninja Nation. Welcome to the Bar Ninja Podcast, where we talk about everything from trials and tribulations, from life behind the bar to tips and tricks to make you a better bartender and a better drinker. Join your host, Bill Thornton, Kayla Lowe and yours truly, Mike Garrison. Let's go have some fucking fun. I just hit the cold so we can have our usual cold open how you guys doing Bar Ninja in the house. I don't think we've ever said we're can have our usual cold open how you guys doing.
Speaker 2:Barton Engine to house. I don't think we've ever said we're just going to the cold open.
Speaker 1:I'll probably edit that out. I edit about half of what we. If we record for an hour, that turns into 25 minutes. Toby, the guy that wrote the Bartender's Manifesto, which is my favorite bartending book, said yes. Chad that owns Service Bar said yes. And then the media company that owns a bunch of bars in DC wants to do it. So I'm going to tell them yes. And then the next one I want to interview Charlie and Trace, who are bartenders at Founding Farmers in DC. Has the craft cocktail? Has it changed from the purple hooter to having tinctures on the bar?
Speaker 1:and infusions Today. I thought we'd just fast round it. I have two topics. If you guys have topics you want to talk about, we can just roll into it. Our tipping podcast didn't save, so I thought we'd talk about that Funny.
Speaker 2:I feel like since we actually talked about that, I've been even weirder about it. We did really a deep dive into it and started really talking about what it's become.
Speaker 1:Tip culture and has it gotten out of control.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I definitely think it has.
Speaker 1:I think it's got out of control because I worked hard for the tips serving people and spending time. There was a guy on Instagram who went by and he's like, if I have to pay for my food before I get it, I'm not tipping. And then like people in the retail world. Are we subsidizing the labor costs for the restaurant? Yeah, I don't know how I feel about it completely.
Speaker 2:No, I just think, like with the electronics too, I just don't trust them. Every time they give me even the little pad, I'm like where is this tip going? What is the structure anymore?
Speaker 1:And it happened to me the other day. The girl reached over and pushed no tip because she was like we don't get them, the owner keeps them and I'm like, no, that's not right.
Speaker 2:That's happened. The guy literally like just press, he's just pressed, no tip. And I was like and he pretty much did the same thing.
Speaker 1:That's not fair, because that's like almost a contract or we think we're giving it to the people and it's also like along the lines where it seems like so many operations are no longer giving credit card tips.
Speaker 3:They're giving them the paycheck. You don't get it at the end of the night. It's like all of these corporations or businesses are just trying to manage their labor cost by creating all these revenues or ways of tipping. It's sketch, super sketch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's supposed to be a. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's supposed to be a reward for performance, not a bucket of revenue for the owner.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like it's become that, though, and that is what's unfortunate, because there's places that are normal for tipping. Of course, you go to a restaurant, there's good service, the standard where we've always been used to tipping but then there's places now where I'm like why is a gratuity? Even an option Like it literally doesn't make any sense. I become like very cautious. Now don't get me wrong. If I walk into a coffee shop and the person is extremely pleasant and they made my morning as I'm getting a cup of coffee, I'll tip them, but I now carry more cash than I even used to. For that reason, because I'm like, even if I wanted to tip this person, can I? Because if I'm tipping them out of their good kindness, is the company owner taking it? I don't know, but yeah, it's just, it's such an it becomes more stressful and gosh with inflation and everything already being so expensive and then almost being like guilt tripped until they hand you the pad and then it's, it's great.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's like 20, 25, 30%, and I'm like yeah, the minimum is 20.
Speaker 3:Cause, I yeah, the minimum is 20.
Speaker 2:And then you feel like an asshole because I'm like what happened to the basic 15% and all you've done is literally make me a cup of coffee.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's counter sales, sometimes where it's like that's crazy.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm all about normalizing 20%, no longer the 15% standard, or whatever you call it.
Speaker 1:But we can't just be like here's your donut, it's more like when it's for sure when you're not being served like counter service is different than being waited on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm I was sorry and I would just keep talking, but I would say all three of us are great tippers. We've all worked in the service industry.
Speaker 2:We've all been behind a bar, even if it's not good service on counter service or being waited on like I still tip a lot of times I over tip a hundred percent like, oh yeah, like I'm here to think, if I can't afford to go out to eat, if I can't afford to go out to eat and not tip, well, like I'm just not going to do it, that's not fair. So, no, I over tip, but in certain cases, like I there, I'm just like what am I tipping for?
Speaker 1:and again, where is this? Yeah, that's the thing I'm buying groceries. Why is it asking for a tip?
Speaker 2:because you rang my groceries up. Isn't that your job not?
Speaker 1:grocery, but like any kind of little store, it seems like there's either a tip jar or it goes to the gratuity stream. These days, even in some time in some retail situations I wonder who started that trend. I wonder if it was like star I think COVID maybe a little bit pushed it up because you felt bad, because somebody was working, and then everything was to go. It, semi-normalized it, and then it just stuck.
Speaker 2:Also like electronics in general, like everything now is like on the same, like iPad or whatever system, and it's like even Square. I'm not by any means have the technology background and advancement, but it's usually the same and it's always asking for the gratuity. So it's pretty simple to have that same platform and like, why not throw it out there? Because, again, if it's not even necessarily a place that would technically collect tips, why wouldn't the owner do it? Because if they can pull some extra money off and the person's not getting it, it's not a good think, it's terrible, but that's probably what's going on.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you can go to a sandwich spot now that doesn't ask for a tip. Sure, Like anything, Subway, Jersey Mile, like anything, it's always. It's just, it's kind of-.
Speaker 3:This is a good opportunity for listeners to send in their examples of where and how and when they've noticed the change.
Speaker 2:And where and how and when they've noticed the change. And yeah, it's the tip culture getting out of control. I think we could talk different case scenarios about this for a hot minute, because there are places, for sure, where tips are absolutely deserved and they should be over tipped and everything like that. And then there's other times where you're put in front of a position where you feel almost guilty by not tipping, because you're already a good tipper and you're like well, what am I doing? Should I do this? I don't know.
Speaker 3:So especially to people like us who just karma is. I tip just to throw it back to the universe because I've made so much money that way same we feel obligated. Obligated so, and I started realizing, though.
Speaker 2:I'm like I can't keep tipping for when I'm don't even know what I'm tipping for, and I'm like this is a lot of money going I don't know where so next topic, fun topic, for a little speed round.
Speaker 1:There is a bar that just opened that is for 30 or over.
Speaker 2:It's basically like a millennial bar, yeah it's getting a lot of press what are your thoughts on?
Speaker 1:that like no 20 21 year olds that are doing shots at the bar where's this at?
Speaker 2:where Where's the bar?
Speaker 3:Was it Colorado? I can't remember where it was.
Speaker 2:I honestly like that.
Speaker 3:I don't want to say I like it.
Speaker 2:Let me go ahead and say, though, I actually, at this very moment in time, couldn't get in because I'm only 29. I wouldn't. I would show them my ID and they might let me in.
Speaker 3:I think that therein lies the flaw then because you're certainly the customer they want in the building so I get it, though.
Speaker 2:Like also, I feel like 21 year olds. Now I'm only 29, but gosh, 21 year olds look like they're 12 to me. I'm like what they're drinking? Why are they drinking?
Speaker 1:they're going to have an alcoholic.
Speaker 2:but exactly I'm like, why do they have an alcoholic beverage in their hands? This is not good, Like I go in like mom mode and I'm not even 30.
Speaker 1:So I don't know, this is a bar in Ohio. Ohio it's called Donerick's Pub. It's in Groveport, outside of Columbus, and so on Friday or Saturday nights they're going to 30 and up, with no exceptions.
Speaker 3:Oh, I wouldn't make it Road trip.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you.
Speaker 3:Thoughts or feelings on that. I would love to see the sales.
Speaker 2:Let's go for our 30th birthday.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, that's a great idea. I would love to see the sales, I would love to see the tips, I would love to see the data. And is it almost discriminating?
Speaker 1:I was thinking about that. Is that a to see the data and is it almost discriminating? I was thinking about that. Is that a protected class, because aren't you only allowed to age discriminate over 50? I don't know. Is that the rule?
Speaker 2:That seems like a really weird rule.
Speaker 1:Like an act of adult communities.
Speaker 2:Before we get in trouble, the way you said that can you only discriminate over 50? There's no discrimination at all. Let's go to the clear no, I'm. Can you describe?
Speaker 1:it. I think you can describe it.
Speaker 2:There was a standard to the description.
Speaker 1:I think legally you could have a bar that's 50 and over and that's government okay because that's a protected class. But I don't know that you can have a bar 30 or over.
Speaker 2:I feel like they had to do their due diligence. If it's getting that much press, it probably would be shut down by now.
Speaker 1:It's Ohio, though.
Speaker 2:That is true, and also there could be some state laws that really protect such a thing. I don't got a legal team but, again, coming from somebody that can't even get into the bar, but I do hang out with people that are significantly older than I am. I don't classify myself as this. Most people that know me classify myself as this More of an old soul, so I do actually like the idea.
Speaker 1:Would you be upset? You couldn't go.
Speaker 2:No, I would be like I have money that I can bring here and a great time and I'm not Horrible mistake. Yeah, I'm also not going to be a shit show. I'm very responsible. I've done all my things when I was 21,. All those years I'm good, so I'm definitely the range of people that you want in there I really. But at the same time, there's so many other places.
Speaker 2:that's one of those things where I think it's I like it, because if you're going out, especially when you're older I mean, 30 isn't old by no means am I saying that but at the same time, like you're putting yourself, if you're going to that bar, especially if you're single, you're not going to be running into some really young kids and having those issues. So in a, I think it creates a better environment for something like that. So I definitely don't actually hate the idea and again I, it really wouldn't bother me that I couldn't get in. I don't. It takes a lot for me to get upset or bothered, so me not being able to go into that bar would not upset or bother me. I would just go to the next one.
Speaker 3:But the bartenders will be crying because they're really gonna miss out I think as like a blacksburg guy that started out in the college I see this is true here at the lake yeah, yeah, and this is true at the lake actually, like there are so many young women and men that are 25 and even a little bit younger, that are solid tippers, great people to have in the room, and those are the ones that evolve into that 30 something crew. So I feel like it would almost it would have to be. I don't know. It's almost like they had some kind of issue with the younger crowd coming in and they decided to do that because I truly enjoy getting a young crowd across a younger crowd across the wood because energy, they've got jobs, they're out of college, they're having a good time, they want if the better time they have, the more money they're going to throw. I really I greatly. I feel like a lot of the bar industry is has existed on the 25 bracket, 25 to 30 bracket. Kayla, you're a perfect example.
Speaker 3:We are all perfect examples of this.
Speaker 2:I completely agree. I will say, even through my 22, even 22 to 29 now at this point, but really even over the past year, I go to bars and drink way less than I used to. I'm not spending as much money as I used to, but when I used to spend a ton of money, the bartender was making out just as much. So yeah, I feel like you grow up through the bars in that era, because when you're 21, frankly I'm not going to, I wasn't trying to get into bars like that anyway. But when you're out of college and you have a job, like you're going to socialize at bars and yeah, as a bartender too.
Speaker 1:but like I know, Bill, you and I used to do this. We used to curate our crowd. Like you can focus on the right people and you can curate the crowd that comes in to make your bar what you want your bar to be, If you bartend with intention and you get the right people coming in at the right times and then it turns into the bar you want it to turn into yeah, because two becomes four people, becomes 10 people and all of a sudden you've got this.
Speaker 3:Everybody knows and again it's, it's. It's been a very broad age bracket. I'm not hating on this ohio bar because I can see the whole. We're over 30, we're gonna go out, we don't have to worry about kids taking shots and everything, but honestly, it's going to go out. We don't have to worry about kids taking shots and everything but honestly it's kind of part of the bar experience.
Speaker 2:Also, I like the idea for the dating scene. That's, I think, the only reason, because it does put people more in that age range, probably a little bit more mature, in one space, right? So you're not having to go wean it out, or does this bar? What's going to evolve tonight? Things like that. You already know the age range is going to be in there. You're 30 and up, you're not messing around with anything else. So I like it for that, but I do think it's very limiting. I think it's not a great limiting at the same time.
Speaker 1:You need to do some research. You probably trend to an older crowd too right. It's not necessarily you're going to get to 30 years old.
Speaker 2:30 is the minimum, so you probably Because again my friends, like if they're even 32 and 33 and I'm 29, I can't get into that bar.
Speaker 1:They're not going to go Average age in there is probably 40, though, or in the 40s, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So again for the dating scene, I think it's actually beneficial. I don't hate the idea of it, but yeah.
Speaker 3:The nightlife scene. It's like I don't know. It's very interesting. I would love to we I'm gonna do we should do some research because it's got to be. It had to be for a solid reason.
Speaker 1:You know, there's a bunch of 21 year olds that are out for shots and pb, I mean, depends on the district of the bar too, and adams morgan, when you start growing up, I would go to a 30 and over bar because it's pretty much all the bars are debauchery, or were back in the day yeah, yeah, it totally depends, I think, on the area too campus I mean like around here, I guess it.
Speaker 2:Just I'm trying to think like in charlotte, I think actually in charlotte there is one. My boyfriend and I actually went to it and I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1:I think it's like 25 and over yeah, I can see 25, that would make sense yeah, I'm trying to.
Speaker 2:I forget what it's called. I don't know. It was a while ago that we went, but it wasn't like super cool, like it wasn't anything that I was like obviously I don't even remember the name of it mind-blowing no I don't remember the name of it and I don't think I've been back since I can do charlotte trip sometime.
Speaker 1:That's fun. Oh yeah, I'll go right now.
Speaker 3:We stayed out till three in the morning we, I was oh, my god, I was five, I had a great, I think we walked home yeah we did there's a lot of we had a ride offered and I was like nope, I want to walk, this is my hood, I'll go right now.
Speaker 1:I mentioned we were getting rides from bartenders that had already closed the bar. Yeah, oh, funny it was that late at night?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I left you guys Sitting outside.
Speaker 3:We were like why are they getting drinks?
Speaker 1:Kayla's land yacht stuck in that parking deck.
Speaker 3:I'm still slightly embarrassed about losing my temper there.
Speaker 1:Remember that we pulled in and so many people pulled in and there no spaces, so then we were gonna have a three-point turn and they didn't leave enough room that is around it was just gridlock my land yacht.
Speaker 2:That's so funny. I know literally everyone's like why do you drive a bus? And I'm like awesome, nice it's so nice well it's so nice, but I was. It's funny because they're like people don't know me. They're like do you have the kids? And so nice, but it's funny because they're like people that don't know me. They're like do you have big kids? And I'm like no, just me, Just me, my grain wagon here she's got a little wagon.
Speaker 3:I mean you got to have the party bus, Somebody got to have the big ride.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I forgot about that Poor thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was funny.
Speaker 3:We got poor thing. Yeah, that's funny, we got her out. How about this? Does anyone still have the restaurant curse happening to where you order food and it gets busy? I haven't been behind the wood in a minute. That's not true. I got behind the wood a couple times this year, but I swear I'm at my house like nothing going on. I've made this perfect meal salad, you know. I've built it up to have a little snacky snack and the phone rings up like I'm still in the restaurant. Curse to where I cannot eat a warm meal.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's funny, it is as soon as you sit down it happens every week.
Speaker 3:I'm like this is I mean I get the car man. I'm happy the universe is giving me what it has from the restaurant industry which is indigestion, which is.
Speaker 1:I saw a guy like dip around the corner and put as much blackened chicken pasta into my face as possible in the shortest amount of time, like we would just eat so fast. You wonder why you'd wake up at three o'clock in the morning with heartburn. Yeah, it's 23 years old. I had an ulcer at 22, from bourbon, and cold cheese fries, homie meatball subs.
Speaker 3:I saw something the other day. If you have not split cold dead cheese fries with a co-worker after a night where nothing has ever gone wrong, you do not understand the restaurant industry. Because we've all sat there like eating cold mozzarella sticks, like I'm just gonna eat these and man have a beer that's so true.
Speaker 2:The cold beer after a long day I've this corona.
Speaker 3:I've been on the lake all day running around, had some business, hard life out on the pond and I haven't had a beer in a week and I'm like I'm going to. And I opened up the fridge and there was one corona and limes. I'd pre-cut and it was light and, oh, this is the best corona I've ever had.
Speaker 2:When I was, when I was waiting tables, it was like immediately after it got off shift, I was like I must have a beer, I must have a very cold beer, and by the end of the shift, like I would see, I'd be picking up the draft beers to bring to tables and I'd be salivating.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah exactly Just holding their beer.
Speaker 2:I want to chug all five of these right now.
Speaker 3:I mean I remember beer bong in the corner.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I seriously I remember, and I would go through different phases too, of which beers I would want after work.
Speaker 2:And there was one phase weirdest phase I wanted coors light, but it had to be the screw off top it couldn't be oil can yeah, it had to be oh, they're still amazing, but I crave them and I didn't want to, I didn't want to pop it, I didn't want it in a bottle it does, oh gosh, and it would be super cold, and I would put it in the freezer a little bit too, so then it would be like a little bit icy get those mountains so good I know I went through a phase where that was all I wanted navy blue, exactly, and then of course the other five draft beers that would be, do you?
Speaker 3:know the who was where what. Because I had no, the colorblind guy, I had no idea about this blue can thing and somebody explained it to me all the years ago, like way back in the day, and I'm like what are you talking about? They're like the can turns. I'm like sure it does. I feel like this was cameron, because he always yeah.
Speaker 1:So you don't, yeah, you don't trust.
Speaker 3:So I just thought it was a big joke. Literally a month in they're like regulars who I trusted were like no bill. Actually it's it's not cold yet I'm like how do you what? Are you just making stuff up everybody against the blind people? That's funny, that's funny all right. Thanks everybody for listening to the bar ninja podcast. Check us out online, check us out everywhere, reach out to us with stories and appreciate y'all. Bar Ninja.
Speaker 1:Yeah, podcast at barninjacom. If you have anything to tell us, subscribe to the podcast and your favorite podcast player. Check out barninjacom for our barware. And yeah, till next time. Good to have the band back together.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to this episode of the Bar Ninja podcast. Please be sure to subscribe to us on your favorite podcast player and join the Bar Ninja nation that has over 7,000 bartenders in it, by going to wwwbarninjacom and you can enter your email till next time. See you then, thank you.
